tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post3958616672339843682..comments2024-01-13T13:40:31.385+00:00Comments on TOO DANGEROUS FOR A GIRL!: Wonder Woman and origin(al) sinMartin Grayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09574149543260175962noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-3517276858564518712014-03-06T05:32:03.858+00:002014-03-06T05:32:03.858+00:00I personally would like to forget about the crappy...I personally would like to forget about the crappy new 52 incarnation. You know, I just like how the point was made about WW being just another bastard of Zeus making her ordinary. Nearly every darn hero from Greek myth was one of his illegitimate young. i also hate when they say she just isn't relatable or people don't understand her- her origin is pretty straight forward for the passed 75- 80 years. Many people are saying she is a golem and that Hippoltya should give birth has it's female empowerment. To me the reason why she made it out of clay should sense like when with the goddess help she couldn't have a kid by birth. SO she made it out of clay and blood.<br />Many people are saying she is a golem and that Hippoltya should give birth has it's female empowerment. To me the reason why she made it out of clay should sense like when with the goddess help she couldn't have a kid by birth. SO she made it out of clay and blood.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03384658863122996004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-41438486518811922212011-11-11T00:30:05.882+00:002011-11-11T00:30:05.882+00:00Too right Jonathan. Morrison's conciseness was...Too right Jonathan. Morrison's conciseness was radical, yet it seems utterly natural.Martin Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09574149543260175962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-59229242442888986542011-11-10T11:28:49.664+00:002011-11-10T11:28:49.664+00:00I remember some reviewer in The Comics Journal bac...I remember some reviewer in The Comics Journal back in 1986-87 lamenting the incredibly long post-Crisis Wonder Woman origin story (aka the first year or so of the Potter/Wein/Perez book) because origin stories used to be something to be gotten over with as quickly as possible. <br /><br />And I tend to agree when it comes to iconic characters -- the origin story is one of the least interesting things you can do, so get it over with and get on to the adventures. Those original one-, two- and, sometimes, eight-page origins of Superman, Batman and the like were pretty much perfect. Simplify! <br /><br />The opening of both the print version and the animated film ALL-STAR SUPERMAN was great because it gave us the origin pretty much everyone knows (Superman's, natch) in eight words and accompanying illustrations. Now that's mythic!Jonathan Stoverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07751600613741713162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-5293207276168817952011-11-09T23:54:39.546+00:002011-11-09T23:54:39.546+00:00Karl. it's received wisdom that Marston and Pe...Karl. it's received wisdom that Marston and Peters' Diana is too 'out there' to succeed today. I'd be fascinated to see DC attempt to, not directly ape Diana's creators, but recapture their storytelling sensibilities and approach. Just once. Who knows, the world may indeed be waiting for such a Wonder Woman?<br /><br />Marvelboy, isn't a Diana who's the daughter of Zeus even MORE likely to spurn Zeus' attentions. I feel rather ill now!<br /><br />Wonderful, true point, Jeyl. Barry Allen, too, came from a happy home life, until Geoff Johns decided to pee in that particular pot. Are well-adjusted heroes who do what's right simply BECAUSE it's right so hard to believe in?<br /><br />Colin, as ever, you're madly generous, thank you. (And if anyone reading this hasn't been across to Colin's Too Busy Thinking About My Comics, give it a crack, it's your one-stop shop for thoughtful, kind comics commentary - link at right!).Martin Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09574149543260175962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-77539096055153106832011-11-09T23:03:35.196+00:002011-11-09T23:03:35.196+00:00"She's an Amazon who comes to America to ..."She's an Amazon who comes to America to fight for peace"<br /><br />I wish I could add to what you've said, or even challenge it, but the best I can do is say that I'm far more uncomfortable with the daughter of a god turn than you.<br /><br />Well, why add anything? Because it seems the best way to respect a really good piece of "editorial" comment. Instead, I'll just have to add my applause from the cheap seats. Great work :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-50794643926583604642011-11-09T22:24:09.322+00:002011-11-09T22:24:09.322+00:00Also, I don't like the idea of Diana having a ...Also, I don't like the idea of Diana having a father. All I get from that is that the writers are saying Diana is incomplete unless she has a man involved in her life, god or not.Jeylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06259007967493981190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-62124835259558543762011-11-09T22:18:29.649+00:002011-11-09T22:18:29.649+00:00"The one thing about Diana’s made-of-clay ori..."The one thing about Diana’s made-of-clay origin that falls short of Superman’s and Batman’s origins is that it doesn’t seem to <b>inform the character</b> as much as theirs do. She’s an Amazon, and that is crucial to the character, but until The Circle, I’ve never gotten the sense that that <b>clay origin was ever crucial to the stories</b> that take place in the present."<br /><br />For me, that's why Wonder Woman's origin is so important. It separates her from Superman and Batman. She doesn't come from a life of tragedy or loss so that creates a different perspective between the three. Not every character must be defined by their origin, but what they do. I love it how she came into being because her mother wanted a child. Diana represents tangible love!Jeylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06259007967493981190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-53729977901024700822011-11-08T23:24:23.680+00:002011-11-08T23:24:23.680+00:00Rob S better states what I've thought about. ...Rob S better states what I've thought about. I never understood why Diana made the Greek gods problems her own or why it would be in her interest to cross her own deities. <br /><br />I think the daughter of Zeus angle can explain a lot of WW history. Why would Ares or Hades plot against Diana? Why would Diana ascend to become a goddess when she died? Why would Zeus be so taken aback if Diana renounces him.marvelboy74https://www.blogger.com/profile/13962731689660859167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-58759342676614148522011-11-08T20:36:24.191+00:002011-11-08T20:36:24.191+00:00This current storyline will inevitably pass whenit...This current storyline will inevitably pass whenits novelty wears off, but for me the original Marston image will forever remain as the only true origin. Successive rewrites and reboots only serve to water down the character.karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07814365568280298681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-58170841925831663462011-11-08T20:32:36.362+00:002011-11-08T20:32:36.362+00:00Hey Mart,
Regarding family versus other relations...Hey Mart,<br /><br />Regarding family versus other relationships: I don't think Diana being the daughter of Zeus precludes her having any of the relationships you mention. (The practicalities of limited story space might, though.) I have a family, and still manage to have relationships with friends, co-workers, and whatever the equivalent of my Amazon sisters are. <br /><br />I'm not sure if Azz & Chiang will make the gods "just like us" -- I certainly hope not, and I don't necessarily see signs of them doing that. But I think they'll make them a *little* more like us, which for me, at least, is a good thing. I don't understand why Diana would worship beings who consistently reveal themselves to be petty, immature and fickle. (IIRC, even patrons like Aphrodite and Athena have turned their backs on her at times in the past.) But I can totally understand how she wouldn't be able to extricate herself from a family of such beings. <br /><br />Anyway, I think it's worth a try. If it doesn't work (and maybe even if it does), things will likely shift back in the future, like you said.Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-79295633434353712472011-11-08T13:55:18.227+00:002011-11-08T13:55:18.227+00:00' ... having Diana as one of zeus' bastard...' ... having Diana as one of zeus' bastards makes her pretty common' That made me laugh, foresightreviews. Thanks, too, for passing on your pal's experience, it's interesting to hear how someone comes across in person as opposed to in 'print'.<br /><br />Perhaps the Amazons have some columns and temples on the other side of the island ...<br /><br />Marvelboy, I don't see a need to connect with a hero via the first thing we know about them. It's the personalities and relationships that we see as time goes on that I'm interested in. I like the clay baby business because it's unique, it makes me think 'wow!'<br /><br />Family is certainly relatable, Rob - but these characters are actual gods. If Azzarello presents them as being 'just like us', what's the point of them? I'd rather see Diana having a range of relationships with her Amazon sisters, friends, co-workers and the like.<br /><br />Sounds like DC has worn you down with the constant upending of Diana's life, David. I got to that point during the Rucka run, but the blast of superhero colour provided by the Heinberg/Dodsons restart cheered me up. Right now, I'm just looking at this as another two-year wonder.<br /><br />Before it ends, though, we have Grant Morrison's take to look forward to. If he can bring us some of the classic sense of wonder he put into All-Star Superman, we're in for a treat.<br /><br />And one thing I really expect to see there is the importance of Amazon training. You're right, Carol, it's important to the legend of Wonder Woman. 'Daughter of Zeus' makes things too easy (and besides, Cassie Sandsmark has worn that particular tee shirt).<br /><br />The mission should also be a given, I hope the opening story gives us some idea as to Diana's motivations. It has to be more than 'protecting Man from gods'. Surely other heroes are doing that too?<br /><br />Thanks for the comments, everyone - I really appreciate hearing your views.Martin Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09574149543260175962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-52317140808469026872011-11-08T13:15:45.551+00:002011-11-08T13:15:45.551+00:00Of course I have to comment. Great column! Except ...Of course I have to comment. Great column! Except that I don't accept the current take on the origin or the current take (that we've seen so far) on what they're calling "Wonder Woman."<br /><br />I'm not a big fan of Xena in any form.<br /><br />Wonder Woman is unique, and an important (though backstory) part of her is her male-less origin. But even if Diana were the immaculate daughter of Athena I wouldn't approve.<br /><br />Classic Wondie (which we haven't seen in quite a while) was not only made from clay, but had to WORK HARD to get her powers through Amazon Training, a feat anyone (even a kid reading a comic book) can start to do if they work hard enough.<br /><br />Is that cool or what?<br /><br />And of course since Diana comes from a peace-loving, sane, powerful, creative, etc. civilization (which we haven't seen much hint of since Vol. 2), her mission to bring with her such sanity that cuts at the very edge of society in order to help a mad world get on its collective feet—well, that just seems quite logical, exciting and even inspirational to me.<br /><br />It's much more valid than dressing up like a bat. I mean, how silly is that? And the guy uses goofy batarangs and bat-ropes and bat-planes and has a Batcave. Sheesh. He won't last for long. Someone reboot the guy before he brings all of DC's sales down!Carol A. Stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08144748925453952984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-71435983866349993462011-11-08T11:57:03.314+00:002011-11-08T11:57:03.314+00:00I love this post. I doubly-love your opening parag...I love this post. I doubly-love your opening paragraph.<br /><br />I feel... nothing about the change to her origin. It didn't excite me, it didn't intrigue me. It didn't even upset me. I just wasn't bothered.<br /><br />Which is the worst response a writer can have, I would think.David Meadowsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-66667284185328798912011-11-08T02:30:35.707+00:002011-11-08T02:30:35.707+00:00I’m willing to give the new origin a try, too. The...I’m willing to give the new origin a try, too. The one thing about Diana’s made-of-clay origin that falls short of Superman’s and Batman’s origins is that it doesn’t seem to inform the character as much as theirs do. She’s an Amazon, and <i>that</i> is crucial to the character, but until <i>The Circle, </i> I’ve never gotten the sense that that clay origin was ever crucial to the stories that take place in the present. (<i>The Circle</i> was so revelatory to me because it actually used the potential in that story for once.)<br /><br />With the Zeus origin, I think there are some richer story veins to mine. Family is expansive, and the relationships are complex in a way that doesn’t necessarily involve recounting all their history together. It’s not at all that I think “daughter of Zeus” makes Diana more relatable than “made of clay.” But I do think it potentially makes her <i>relationships</i> more relatable, going forward.Rob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07331286524477806963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-27732273235168914402011-11-08T02:11:50.266+00:002011-11-08T02:11:50.266+00:00I think part of the problem of WW's origin is ...I think part of the problem of WW's origin is that it's a weak origin. Being made of clay doesn't and given powers from goddesses doesn't create any connection with the audience. Granted, being the daughter of Zeus might not create much of an emotional connection either but it helps to set up why she would have conflicts with the gods more. They are her family now too.marvelboy74https://www.blogger.com/profile/13962731689660859167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6392489189136721402.post-80309172373884470742011-11-08T01:25:42.358+00:002011-11-08T01:25:42.358+00:00while at NYCC, a friend went to the New DC panel w...while at NYCC, a friend went to the New DC panel while i went to a writers' panel. he came back a bit miffed about his experience, and said that azzarello told the audience that if they didn't like diana's new origin, they were certainly welcome not to buy the book. i guess he's not handling flak as gracefully as gail simone might.<br /><br />i'm enjoying the new run on wonder woman (much better than jodi picoult's "moron in a strange land" diana; far less accomplished than gail simone's take), though having diana as one of zeus' bastards makes her pretty common. zeus never saw a piece of mortal ass he didn't want, and from the stories his sperm never met an ovum they couldn't penetrate. of course strife could be lying because that would cause... well, strife. she'd hardly be doing her job otherwise. <br /><br />also, i'm not a fan of the iron age amazons. there's no elegance to them, no philosophy, no columns... i'm on board for now.foresightreviewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155745707722698576noreply@blogger.com